--- title: "What are hollowing-out and stalking our stories?" description: "Hollowing-out is setting aside our middle-world**Middle-world.** Ordinary physical reality together with its energetic layers: the realm of individuality, separation and mixed intentions, and the only realm where harm is possible. \"If there is a hell, then it is the middle-world.\"…" url: "https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/wiki/what-is-hollowing-out/" updated: "2026-11-10" category: Journeying tags: - grokking - hollow bone - "hollowing-out" - "middle-world bleed-through" - "middle-world self" - research - stalking oneself - stories - wonky stories --- # What are hollowing-out and stalking our stories? Hollowing-out is setting aside our middle-world**Middle-world.** Ordinary physical reality together with its energetic layers: the realm of individuality, separation and mixed intentions, and the only realm where harm is possible. "If there is a hell, then it is the middle-world." [Read the full answer](/wiki/what-is-the-middle-world/) concerns, agendas, beliefs and identity, so that we become a "hollow bone" through which the Guides**Guides.** The Lower-World and Upper-World beings a practitioner works with and learns from, of whom the Power Animal is the first and foremost. True Guides are ethical to their core; the shaman's power comes from the depth of these bonds, not from the shaman. [More about this](/wiki/who-are-the-guides/) can work. Stalking ourselves is part of it: watching, like a hunter, for our own thoughts, interpretations and stories as they arise, so that they do not distort the journey. How well we do both decides how true our journeys are, and both are lifelong practices. ## What is hollowing-out? Getting ourselves out of the way. It is the ability to put aside our middle-world concerns, agendas, perceptions and identity, and become a hollow vessel for Spirit to work through.^[1](#note-1) In healing, the practitioner's job is to ask for the healing, then hollow out and be a vessel, in shamanism the 'hollow bone', that the Guides can work through.^[2](#note-2) The power is not the shaman's own. Hollowing-out is how the practitioner gets out of the way of that power. 1. Paul Francis, [*Finding Your Deep Soul*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/finding-your-deep-soul/), Chapter Eight, "A Guide to Terminology". 2. Paul Francis, [*The Shamanic Journey*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/the-shamanic-journey/), Chapter Three, "The Shaman's True Source of Power". ## What is there to hollow out? Our stories about who we are. "The ego is a collection of stories; As such, it is a middle-world construct. It is a made-up thing."^[3](#note-3) The middle-world self**Middle-world self.** The everyday self (ego, persona, head-and-heart), made of our stories and experiences. A genuine and needed part of the Inner Tribe: of service, not in command. [Read the full answer](/wiki/what-are-soul-spirit-the-middle-world-self-and-the-body/) is a mask, and hollowing-out means stepping back from it: "It is the process of becoming the 'witness', or 'aware self'; the part of us that can step away from the middle-world stories." In other words, it is our capacity to notice our stories without being run by them. 1. Paul Francis, [*The Shamanic Journey*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/the-shamanic-journey/), Chapter Three, "The Stories That Make the Ego". ## Why does hollowing-out matter so much? Because it sets the depth of everything else. "The depth and extent to which a practitioner can hollow-out determines the depth and extent to which they can do real, spirit-led, truthful shamanic journeys", rather than journeys coloured and distorted by the practitioner's ego.^[4](#note-4) It is how the middle-world is set down before we travel. The better we hollow out, the truer the journey. 1. Paul Francis, [*The Shamanic Journey*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/the-shamanic-journey/), Chapter Three, "The Shaman's True Source of Power". ## Does hollowing-out mean having no thoughts? No. Thoughts will come. The skill is to watch them and be aware of them as they arise, while trying not to get caught up in them.^[5](#note-5) When middle-world imagery turns up in a journey, sometimes it is enough "to just pay it no more attention; sometimes things are just fleeting and if you do not feed them with attention they go away".^[6](#note-6) 1. Paul Francis, [*The Shamanic Journey*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/the-shamanic-journey/), Chapter Three, "Stalking Oneself". 2. Paul Francis, [*Rewilding Yourself*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/rewilding-yourself/), Chapter Two, "Three Essential Lower-World Practices". ## Is hollowing-out ever finished? No. It is "a meditation practice" and a skill that needs "Life-long practice. Like meditating, it is not something that you reach the 'end' of and no longer need to do any more."^[7](#note-7) Even very experienced practitioners keep working at it. It deepens with practice over a lifetime. 1. Paul Francis, [*Rewilding Yourself*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/rewilding-yourself/), Chapter Two, "Hollowing-Out". ## Do I need a ritual to hollow out? A ritual can help, but it is a means, not the thing itself. "Remember it is the point of the ritual that is important, not the ritual itself."^[8](#note-8) Paul Francis has his own: he takes off his middle-world clothes, showers in a waterfall to wash away middle-world energies, and then puts on his Lower-World**Lower-World.** The realm of Mother Earth: pure, unspoilt, wild nature, with no technology and no agriculture. Home of the Peoples and of our own Soul, and completely safe: feeling threatened in a journey is a reliable sign of not having reached it. [Read the full answer](/wiki/what-is-the-lower-world/) clothes, "all made from the kind of natural materials that hunter-gatherers would have used, of course".^[9](#note-9) In that way he becomes the hollow bone through which his Guides can work. Each person can find their own. 1. Paul Francis, [*Rewilding Yourself*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/rewilding-yourself/), Chapter Two, "Exercise 4: Finding Your Pre-Journey 'Ritual'". 2. Paul Francis, [*Rewilding Yourself*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/rewilding-yourself/), Chapter Two, "Developing a Hollowing-Out Practice". ## What does it mean to stalk ourselves? To hunt our own thoughts. "It means like a hunter, being focused, vigilant and alert. What you are looking out for (hunting) is any of your own middle-world thoughts, opinions, interpretations, agendas and so on appearing."^[10](#note-10) It means bringing our thoughts, preconceptions, belief systems and biases into awareness, so that they do not unconsciously distort the journey.^[11](#note-11) The second part of hollowing-out is simply to watch for any middle-world imagery or things bleeding into your journeys, and to be aware when it is happening.^[12](#note-12) See [How do I distinguish guidance from projection and middle-world bleed-through?](/wiki/how-do-i-distinguish-guidance-from-projection-and-middle-world-bleed-through/) 1. Paul Francis, [*The Shamanic Journey*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/the-shamanic-journey/), Chapter Three, "Stalking Oneself". 2. Paul Francis, [*Rewilding Yourself*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/rewilding-yourself/), Chapter Two, "Our Interpretations Colour Our Experiences". 3. Paul Francis, [*The Shamanic Journey*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/the-shamanic-journey/), Chapter Three, "How a Plant Grows (And What This Teaches Us)". ## Why do we need to stalk our stories before and after journeying? Because our stories travel with us at every stage. Before a journey, the aim is not to empty ourselves completely. That is impossible: "if you bring nothing, then nothing will happen. Instead, the point is to be as aware as possible of what you bring".^[13](#note-13) Accurate knowledge helps, "as without it we can bring wonky middle-world stories with us, that colour and distort what we experience".^[14](#note-14) During the journey, stalking carries on throughout. Afterwards, the first question is what the journey means to the person who had it, and then research.^[15](#note-15) See [How do I unpack and interpret a shamanic journey?](/wiki/how-do-i-unpack-and-interpret-a-shamanic-journey/) 1. Paul Francis, [*Rewilding Yourself*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/rewilding-yourself/), Chapter Six, "Can't We Just Ask Our Guides?". 2. Paul Francis, [*Finding Your Deep Soul*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/finding-your-deep-soul/), Chapter Four, "A House Built on Soul". 3. Paul Francis, [*The Shamanic Journey*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/the-shamanic-journey/), Chapter Five, "Understanding a Shamanic Journey". ## What are wonky stories? A plain word for distorted or untrue stories that we have taken for the truth, many of them absorbed from our culture. The persona is "made up of stories that we tell ourselves, wonky-thoughts, beliefs and scripts".^[16](#note-16) We cannot live without stories, so the work is to notice the wonky ones and replace them with healthier ones, something psychotherapy is good at.^[17](#note-17) 1. Paul Francis, [*The Shamanic Journey*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/the-shamanic-journey/), Chapter Nine, "The Mask We Wear". 2. Paul Francis, [*Finding Your Deep Soul*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/finding-your-deep-soul/), Chapter Four, "A House Built on Soul". ## What does it mean to grok something from a journey? To know it from the inside, by becoming it. The word comes from Robert Heinlein's novel *Stranger in a Strange Land*, and means to understand something "so thoroughly that you merge with it and it merges with you".^[18](#note-18) In a journey, "another way of groking something is to become that thing in a shamanic journey by shapeshifting**Shapeshifting.** Becoming another being within a journey, fully enough to know it from the inside: one of the two routes to grokking, a transformation practice, and a direct experience of interconnection. [Read the full answer](/wiki/what-are-transformation-practices-and-shapeshifting/), and experience what it is like from the inside out."^[19](#note-19) Knowing something beforehand does not spoil this. "Basically, knowledge helps us grok." And "the idea that groking in shamanic journeys without prior knowledge is somehow a "purer" way of journeying is a modern conceit."^[20](#note-20) See [What are grokking, dieting and research in working with the Peoples?](/wiki/what-are-grokking-dieting-and-research-in-working-with-the-peoples/) 1. Paul Francis, [*Finding Your Deep Soul*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/finding-your-deep-soul/), Chapter One, "Prior Knowledge Helps Us Grok". 2. Paul Francis, [*Finding Your Deep Soul*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/finding-your-deep-soul/), Chapter One, "Shamanic 'Dieting' and 'Groking'". 3. Paul Francis, [*Finding Your Deep Soul*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/finding-your-deep-soul/), Chapter One, "Prior Knowledge Helps Us Grok". - [Is shamanic journeying imagination, and how are journeys co-created?](/wiki/is-shamanic-journeying-imagination-and-how-are-journeys-co-created/) - [How do I prepare for a shamanic journey?](/wiki/how-do-i-prepare-for-a-shamanic-journey/) - [How do I distinguish guidance from projection and middle-world bleed-through?](/wiki/how-do-i-distinguish-guidance-from-projection-and-middle-world-bleed-through/) - [What are grokking, dieting and research in working with the Peoples?](/wiki/what-are-grokking-dieting-and-research-in-working-with-the-peoples/) - [What is shamanic journeying?](/wiki/what-is-shamanic-journeying/) - [Who was Thich Nhat Hanh?](/wiki/who-was-thich-nhat-hanh/) - [*The Shamanic Journey*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/the-shamanic-journey/) (Chapter Three, hollowing-out and stalking oneself) - [*Rewilding Yourself*](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/book/rewilding-yourself/) (Chapter Two, developing a hollowing-out practice) - [First-Steps](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/learn-shamanism-online/) - [all courses](https://www.therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk/shamanic-courses/)