Podcast trailer: companion guide

Isabel (series opening): Welcome to This Wild and Precious Life, where we explore shamanism, animism, and what it means to be deeply human in a beautiful, broken, living world. In a culture that can so easily pull us away from ourselves, we want to explore what becomes possible when we reawaken our own wild souls and rediscover our relationship with the living world around us. We'll be having deeply authentic conversations about our relationship with the other-than-human world, about spirituality, healing, psychology, death, belonging, and what it means to live well. You don't need any particular beliefs or prior experience to join us, just your curiosity. So let's explore this wild and precious life.

Paul: This is just a short recording to introduce our new podcast series, called This Wild and Precious Life, and to say who we are and what the podcast will cover. If you aren't interested in knowing that, because you already know who we are, then by all means skip this short introductory recording and dive straight into Episode 1 if you like.

Isabel: But of course we would love it if you listen in anyway, and we'd love to start by introducing ourselves and where we're from. So I'm Isabel Wells. I'm a shamanic practitioner and teacher. I'm also a ceramicist and potter and ballet dancer, and lots of different things in my middle-world life. And I'm in Tennessee in the United States.

Paul: I'm Paul Francis. I'm a shamanic practitioner, psychotherapist, body-centred psychotherapist, author of some books on Therapeutic Shamanism, and I live in North Wales in the UK.

Isabel: And so by this point you might be listening to us talk, and you might know me or Paul from our separate paths, but you might be wondering: why are these two doing a podcast together? Why this pairing? So we did want to share a little bit about how we met each other and how this podcast came about. Paul and I first met back when I was still the director of the Moon Rising Institute, a different shamanic school. We had hosted a podcast, and I invited him to come on and do an episode with me about soul retrieval, and how traditional shamanic methods needed to be updated and integrated with psychotherapy for modern times. And it was one of the best, if not the best, conversations I ever had in all my years of recording podcast episodes. We just immediately clicked, and found in each other a kind of kinship around the way that we practise shamanism and the way that we experience animism in our daily lives.

Paul: Absolutely. I mean, for me, it was the most fun I've ever had doing a podcast. And so afterwards you got in touch with me and said, "That was great. Shall we carry on just chatting?" And we just had fantastic conversations from that point onwards. Our minds just work in very similar ways. It was a joy to be able to spark off somebody like that. But I think what was truly surprising for both of us was just how similar our thinking was around shamanism and animism, which is not an experience, I think it's fair to say, that either of us has had that often in the wider shamanic community. So we just had these amazing conversations, and often at the end of them we said, "Oh, we should have recorded that." But we did spend probably about a year or so dancing around each other, trying to catch each other out in a way, thinking, well, there must be something we radically disagree on. And we just kept having these incredible conversations, and seemed never to run out of things to go into and explore.

Isabel: So as we dive into our podcast, we do just want to share a little bit about what the podcasts will cover and what we'll be focusing on. Our main focus for this podcast will be on shamanism and animism as we understand them, and we'll dive into what those are briefly.

Paul: For us, shamanism and animism are something we take a very down-to-earth approach to: a very embodied and grounded approach. You will find that what we discuss requires no beliefs or leaps of faith at all. We practise an approach that can appeal to the spiritually sceptical, to the spiritually homeless, if that's you, but also to those of you who have already been exploring other spiritual paths. You also don't need any prior knowledge of shamanism or animism to listen to these podcasts and get a lot from them. At the same time, if you are already really experienced in shamanism or animism, then we do know from our experience as shamanic teachers that you will find a lot here that is new to you.

Isabel: And because of that, our approach can be quite a bit different from a lot of the other approaches you'll find out in the wider shamanic community. For one thing, it's not based on any particular animist or shamanic culture, but on what is cross-cultural, or universal. You might know this as core shamanism or core animism, and this is something we'll dive into more deeply in the first episode. But what's important to know for now is that the way we practise shamanism, and the way we'll approach animism in this podcast, is respectful, but it's also open to all, and is in fact the birthright of all of us. Again, that's something we'll dive into more deeply in Episode 1.

Paul: Absolutely. And just in case you are new to shamanism and animism, because we've already been bandying those words around, just to say very briefly what we mean by them. Obviously we'll go into this in a lot more depth in future episodes. Animism is the experience (and I do really want to emphasise experience, not belief) that everything around us has personhood: that everything around us is essentially alive and conscious. And so animism is about how to live in respectful and reciprocal relationship, not just with each other as humans, though animism has a lot to say about that too, but with what is sometimes called our other-than-human kin as well. And shamanism, as we see it, is built on animism. Animism is central to good shamanic practice. What shamanism is about is a particular way of practising animism that is based, amongst other things, on a practice known as shamanic journeying, all of which we'll go into in future episodes in a lot of detail and depth. It's about stripping away a lot of the current cultural layers, and the stuff that's happened to us over the last few thousand years of what we call civilisation, and getting back down to the original core animism and core shamanism that was universal and is incredibly ancient. That's where all this knowledge resides and comes from, and it's something we'll go into in future podcasts. But I think we're testament to that being true, because we've arrived at pretty much exactly the same understanding of shamanism and animism entirely independently. And I think it's true for both of us: neither of us was actually taught this by another living human being either.

Isabel: No, we've arrived at this through our direct personal experiences. And I do want to say on that point that I think it is fascinating, because we're obviously very, very different. You're in your elder stage of life in Wales, and I'm very much in my youth in the United States, and yet somehow we've come to the same conclusions and the same experience of shamanism and animism, taking it back to its roots and to what those practices were originally intended to be, rather than what I sometimes call the neo-shamanism we see today. I think that's fascinating, and it really speaks to what you said earlier about animism being an experience and not a belief. Two people with such completely separate backgrounds, striving and doing their best to come back to the Original Instructions, really, and then coming to such similar outcomes and understandings of what that looks like: to me that is just a really profound confirmation of all of this.

Paul: We come from very different cultures. And I think that's one of the fascinating things about the conversations we can get into sometimes: those differences in background, and the different perspectives that brings. And something else that came up in a conversation recently is our different life stages. I can't remember how, but we were talking about how much people can actually really change, and you were very optimistic: everybody can change, given the right circumstances. And I was like, "Oh, that's not what I've experienced from my years as a psychotherapist." But what was wonderful about that conversation for me, and we talked about this, didn't we, was that what we were each saying was right for our different life stages. It's absolutely right that as a younger person you should have that optimism and enthusiasm. And as an older person, I'm going to have that tempered more with experience and what I've seen. But one of the many things I love about our conversations is that we seem to be able to talk not just across our different cultures, but across our different generations as well, because I think there's forty-four years or something between us. So we're not just talking about one generation, we're talking about several. And yet we have these incredibly respectful conversations where we both learn from each other, and honour and value our different perspectives and different stages in life.

Isabel: Absolutely. And of course, with that, we don't want this to sound like we're just going to be blindly agreeing with each other every step of the way. We really do have lively and in-depth conversations, like Paul was saying, even just the other week, when we were talking about people's capacity for change and the different perspectives we bring. Part of our intention for this podcast is also to showcase the non-hierarchical nature of relationships within an animist framework. Part of that is being able to acknowledge the differences, like Paul was saying, of different stages of life, different backgrounds and different cultures, and being able to sit with those in respect and in reciprocity and have those conversations. So you will, of course, be seeing a lot of conversations that have that texture, where we don't agree, and where we get into really lively discussion about what these topics mean. And of course we are different people with different perspectives. So we're really excited to bring that to this podcast, and to show, from two ends of the life spectrum, what these practices can look like, what these concepts can look like and what our experience is; and hopefully then to paint a picture and create a space where you can step into them as well, discover what your experience of them is, and, like we say in the introduction, reawaken to your own wild soul and your own wild self, and discover what's possible when we reawaken to that animist within, and what life looks like when you're living from that place.

Paul: Yes, beautifully said. Absolutely. So with that said, let's give you a taster of what we plan to do. We've come up with an initial block of twelve episodes, and then we've got plans for further blocks of twelve as well, so let's just go through the first. The first thing we're going to do, in the first episode, is to dive into what shamanism and animism actually are, and our understanding of that, which you will find offers a different perspective from what you might find in other parts of the animist and shamanic community. We'll be looking at the cross-cultural view of it, and we'll be doing what I know, actually, from teaching, is a genuinely eye-opening and mind-boggling dive for most people into the history of shamanism and animism: why we ended up turning away from them, what actually happened, why that happened and what that has cost us, and the huge difference between original shamanic and animist cultures and the way we live now. And basically, why we need shamanism and animism back so desperately in these times.

Isabel: Then, moving on, in our following episodes we will talk about neo-shamanism and reimagining shamanism for today: how we can practise with integrity in modern times, how we can approach shamanism without taking from living cultures, without stepping into cultural appropriation, and also how shamanism can learn from more modern techniques and practices like psychotherapy. From there we move on to the pillars of shamanism, the different aspects that are really important to understand: the role of the shaman, what a shaman was actually for and what their role in a culture was; the shamanic realms; our relationship with the other-than-humans, the Animal, Plant and Stone People; and how animism differs from modern spirituality, including what the difference between Soul and Spirit is, and, bringing back in that non-hierarchical nature of animism, how we need to root like a tree and go down before we can go up and explore the Upper-World, why that's so important, and how we can find that balance in a modern shamanic practice.

Paul: And from there we'll go on to episodes exploring the links between shamanism and psychotherapy, something that's very close to my heart, being a shamanic practitioner and a psychotherapist: how there is an enormous amount that psychotherapy can and should learn from shamanism and animism. And likewise, what has happened to us over the last few thousand years has changed us. We're not like the hunter-gatherers we once were. And so a lot of shamanic and animist practices have a lot they could learn from psychotherapy too. So we'll explore that. We'll also do an episode looking at who can do shamanism, particularly looking at the whole issue of neurodiversity. Actually, I prefer the term Neuro-Wild to neurodiverse, but we'll get into that. We'll look at the sacred masculine, the sacred feminine, and men and women and gender and sex from an animist and shamanic point of view too, including, of course, looking at how messed up the relationship between the sexes is in today's culture, and what animism can teach us about putting that right.

Isabel: And then we'll dive into the Original Instructions in another episode, and talk about what it means to live well, to be a good human being in an animist and shamanic world. This is probably one of my favourite aspects of shamanism and animism, and of doing this podcast: it's one of the few spiritual frameworks, I think, that grounds us back into how it helps us to live, how it helps us to approach this real, beautiful, broken, living world we find ourselves in, and what we owe to ourselves, to other people, to nature and to our other-than-human kin. What does it look like to be part of this ecosystem, and what do the Original Instructions tell us about how we can live in right relationship? Once we finish that block of twelve, we have many more topics outlined for more blocks of twelve: grief, personal grief, collective grief and ecological grief; our inner tribe, or parts of self, and how shamanism was really the original parts-of-self practice; what it means to become a real adult and an elder, and how we've strayed away from that in modern culture. We also want to talk about tribe, community and belonging; why we get ill; an animist understanding of healing and personal power; and the ancestors and healing the family line. So we have so many topics we want to dive into, and we're really hoping with this initial series to lay the foundation for what that original core shamanism looks like when we strip away the modern cloaks that have been put on it, and really get back to when we were truly animist, when we were truly living in right relationship with ourselves, with the world and with nature, and practising shamanism as a natural outpouring of that relationship. What did that look like? What did it mean for us as people? What did it mean for us as a culture? How does it change the way we interact with ourselves, others and the world? So that as we go into future episodes and future series, we have that strong foundation to lean back on, those roots, so that our tree of knowledge, if you will, about shamanism can grow from there.

Paul: Absolutely. And as you were just saying, Isabel, one of the things you love about shamanism and animism is that they have real-world practical applications as well. They teach us how to live in that relationship: with ourselves internally, with our different parts of self, with each other as humans (how to actually have a healthy human tribe), and with our other-than-human kin too. So we want to reflect that in these podcasts as well. As well as the talk, the theory we'll be going through, each episode will be accompanied by a document that you can read or download. This will summarise all the points covered in the episode, plus there'll be a lot of supplementary material you can explore, including suggestions of books you might want to check out, links to articles, links to other videos and so on, in case you want to explore any of the topics we've been covering in more detail. The link to that will be in the description of each episode.

Isabel: And also in the description you'll find links to Paul's books, Books One to Three, and soon to be Four if you're listening to this in late 2026. These are absolutely phenomenal resources for diving more deeply into shamanism, animism and a lot of the topics we'll be covering on the podcast. So if you're a reader, I do highly recommend exploring those. As well, Kaja will be publishing her companion guide, which is going to be an absolutely phenomenal resource and companion for Paul's books and for these podcasts we're doing. Kaja is an absolutely incredible teacher and writer, so be sure to check out those companion guides as well.

Paul: The link will also be in the description. And if there's sufficient interest, we'll set up a Substack channel as well, which will provide even more material too. So if you are interested in that, do let us know.

Isabel: If you have any comments, if you have questions, if you have suggestions for future episodes, we would love to hear from you. You can email us at podcasts@therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk. At the end of every episode we're hoping to include a question-and-answer part, with some of the frequently asked questions about the topic we covered in that episode, so please do feel free to email us with any questions you have. We are always more than happy to hear from you. And in the meantime, please be sure to subscribe to our newsletter. The newsletter will tell you when new episodes are released and give you access to additional resources.

Paul: And just before you go, subscribing to the newsletter actually gives you two free e-books at the moment, with another three on the way as well. So do make sure you sign up for the newsletter.

Isabel: So go ahead and check out that link in the description. And before our next episode, don't forget to subscribe and like and follow. This show will be available on YouTube if you'd like the video version, or on any of your favourite podcasting platforms if you prefer to listen. So be sure to find us on your favourite platform, subscribe and follow. Share this with a friend and hit the like button, and we'll see you next time for our first official episode.

Isabel (series closing): Thank you for joining this episode of This Wild and Precious Life. We hope this conversation has given you something to think about, something to explore, and perhaps a little more of your own wild self to come home to. You'll find a companion guide and further resources for this episode in the description, and we'd love to hear your thoughts, questions and suggestions for future episodes. You can email us at podcasts@therapeutic-shamanism.co.uk. And don't forget to subscribe and share the show. Until next time, keep listening deeply, living fully, and opening yourself up to experiencing this wild and precious life.